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QUESTIONS?ANSWERS

Author : Zenon Kelper

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I find your thoughts highly interesting. Can you give me some more references or book suggestions?


I suggest:

  • Marcilo Ficino (~1500AD) showing that Moses is the Monotheist Egyptian King (called at that time "Hermes Trismegistus")
  • Isaac Casaubon (~1600AD) who theorized that Hermes Trismegistus did not exist.
  • the Nag Hammadi scrolls (discovered ~1900AD) which invalidate Casaubon's thesis.

More recently:

  • Egyptologists from Petrie to Aldred (~1900~1980AD) who describe the life and disappearance of Akhnaton.
  • Freud (Moses & Monotheism ~1910~1939AD) who associated (Master-Disciple) Moses with the recent discovery of Akhnaton; his book (and is life) is an interesting chapter of the "resistance/discovery".
  • Velikovsky (Oedipus & Akhnaton ~1960AD) who showed that Oedipus was not a legend but an historical record; he brings therefore the "Oedipus Complex" to a realism that Freud himself would not have dreamt of.
  • Osman (Akhnaten King of Egypt ~1990AD) who shows after Freud that Akhnaton IS Moses since Egyptology is able to explain that he was Hebrew by his mother Tiye. Meanwhile his resistance led him to forget all what he knew with passion during his youth ,when he was specialized in Greek Mythology.
  • I began myself to identify the triple identity in 1985 using the psychoanalytical tool while extended to Collective Psychology (Plural Analysis). The automatic ostracism resulting from my community allowed me to travel, meet Osman and others - especially:
  • France Yates' students. Her "Giordano Bruno and the Hermetic Tradition" shows how the Renaissance missed the opportunity to uncover the repressed memory of the Monotheist Egyptian King, and her "The Art of Memory" suggests how it may be recovered during a moment of chaos. (I understood then that it was what I called Plural Analysis)

It is my impression that with respect to three-borns there are several through our years which could qualify for attention and appreciation. Tracing down the Christian line, for example, there is Moses, Paul and Jerome, whom I regard as the same person reappearing for scriptural purposes. But there are also others


Yes, there are certainly many "three-born" figures in our culture. Yet it must not hide the fact that there are some persons who may have endorse two or three identities.

About a same person reappearing - as some would say "reincarnating" - we have Copernicus and Freud according to Lacan (that I believe was not a stupid idea, as I noted it in The Structure of the Discovery). The word "repetition" would be more contextual in this case - however, you may notice in this site an essay about "reincarnation."

But about Akhnaton, this is not at all what I mean. Many names may refer to his historical presence. Hermes Trismegistus meant Moses, but also Orpheus (the story of Orpheus who mary twice and must hide his face matches the political wedding of a pharaoh) - then the metamorphose of Orpheus in Oedipus is well shown by J.Cocteau (Master of the Prieure de Sion) and its coincidence with the Egyptological Akhnaton well depicted by Velikovsky. Phaeton may be also a clear representation of Akhnaton, etc... (see the essay re: above). What is remarkable with Akhnaton is the demonstration that a repressed Subject reappears under several names.
This is the fundamental rule of the Unconscious, disclosed during the 20th Century.

It points out the idea of a certain "Real" at the cause of our illusory world of representations. It was madness to expect success in deleting the initiator Akhnaton - but it has enabled people with ideologies, and absurd passions for heros and leaders; until the moment when this Real surfaces. In a very intriguing manner, this reappearance of the repressed surges while the biosphere acquire a knowledge of DNA. This is all the same question of the matter, consistency of the bodies, of the biological entities which influence the Earth.

The 20ht century discovery of Akhnaton put us in a situation which may be compared with the Renaissance. At that time mankind had to face the fact that the celestial luminaries were bodies - today we must reckon our idols, to identify some of them as historical bodies.
At the same time, our understanding of what is a body (DNA, fetus) is shifting.

"Trismegistus=Akhnaton+Moses+Oedipus"

Yes, Thank You.
Sounds interesting, the equation.
I have often thought about
Akhnaton+Moses, since
the monotheist idea first originated.


Well, an equation could be also Akhnaton=Moses=Oedipus=Tirsmegistus=etc.. There are numerous names. Your answer is an opportunity to insist on a most important point - for you thought about Akhnaton+Moses. Think of Narcisism, there is no subjectivity, or no exsitence. Existence requires three Significands.

Notice that the author who shows Akhnaton=Oedipus honored Freud for Freud was "blocked" with Oedipus as himself was with Moses. And the author who shows Akhnaton=Moses repressed Oedipus who had obsessed him when he had been writing theater plays, years before see Ahmed Osman. The triple combination encounters resistances
Yet it is the very spirit of the matter.

The historian who shows the identification of Trismegistus as Moses, during the Renaissance, warned his students. The identification must be complete - otherwise it is worth nothing - otherwise it is as Narcissistic or Singular Psychoanalysis which leads nowhere but to perversion or surmoisation (facism). For instance the sole Akhnaton=Moses equality fails and drives warfare (see Freud's analysis).
It is clear as one see it is expressed in the myth of the murder of Moses. Indeed if Akhnaton is not Oedipus (or if Oedipus is not Akhnaton) it logically (in regards to data and logic - see Freud, Osman etc..) means that he has been assassinated (it means that Akhnaton did not escape as Oedipus did, at/from Colonus). So it means what Freud explained very well: an irreparable guilt complex and a compulsion for war between people to redeem the murder of the Leader/Father.
(especially if the murder did not took place in fact, the attempt for redemption can last forever... don't you think?)


...while I find your investigations of interest, my sense is that the historical evidence is too scanty, and the religions too divergent (Judaism, and its God, appear to advocate a very different kind of moral basis - i.e., the ten commandments, etc., and the Jewish God is a storm God while Aknaton is a `sunny' God) to warrant any assumption of possible identitybetween them


About the general historical evidence
- one must picture the geopolitics of the East Mediterranean in Akhnaton's time. The Sinai was part of Egypt (which extended even much norther). One must also consider the archeological artifacts - Egyptian settlement in the Sinai were numerous - to such an extent that one of the most famous statue of Akhnaton's mother was found by the Sinai. We know also that Tiy's family was probably Haribu (Hebrew?)- and that she had important 'domains' in Northern of Egypt.
This is just to give a general idea of the context at that time.

About the quality of the historical evidence - if there are ever 'evidences' - the discoveries in the period of Egypt are perhaps the most documented in archeology. I draw a graph see 18th Dynasty some times ago which evoques the concentration of information we have recently gathered from this period.


Of course, this regards mostly Egypt and not the Sinai - but it gives an idea of the intensity of information that we must consider today. I believe that the idea of 'scanty' documentation must be slighty revisited. For instance, we can compare our present situation within that of M. Ficinus, when he made his translations for C.de Medicis - he concluded that Hermes Trismegistus was not only the Egyptian King who had initiated Moses, but was Moses himself. It caused the final turmoil of the Renaissance see F.Yates, British Royal University , yet this revision of our Western memory could already be done with much less historical evidences than today. For instance, in Ficinus circumstances - the hellenique data was missing. Ficinus could only argue that the manuscripts bought by Medicis originated from Macedonia ; that was little for supporting the disclosure up to Orpheus (who was the hellenic component of the Triple Hermes Thot - aka Trismegistus - at that time).
The identification of Pharao-Moses being insufficently shouldered by Orpheus, the Renaissance collapsed (according to Yates). Very different is the situation today, when Egyptology allowed the strict recognition of Oedipus by Velikovsky goto Velikovsky page (that at his turn asks us to consider the exile depicted in Oedipus at Colonus).

There again, I agree, all this do not refer directly to the Sinai event/religion - but I had to mention this context first.

Now we can look at Moses enigma - with mentioning Oedipus to begin:

Freud who was so interested by the 'Oedipus Complex', repressed a Oedipus-Akhnaton that his disciple K.Abraham suggested to him by 1912. Freud never mentioned him, nor his hypothesis, in his further reports. It is so blatant that even his docile disciples have regularly remarked and questioned this repression.
According to Freud, the Oedipus Complex depicts how the psychology - the morality and its representations - evolves and passes through transformation during the acquisition of the mind of civilization. For instance Freud has been very good at describing how psychological values and images would reverse radically (as it proceeds in the Unconscious etc...) along these phases-process.


Even closer to Moses
, one have Freud's study - _Moses_and_Monotheism_ - itself.

I would like to make a note at this point. It is legitimate to consider Freud as a reference in this matter. For during half a century he has been the only one who has stated on the affair - though it is clear that the matter is serious enough for large and collective studies. Such a general silence combined with Freud isolation indicates a process regarding the collective psychology - so that Freud was 'charged' with an important point of view of the subject (right and/or false, yet certainly significant).

Freud made exactly the same observation as you did. The difference was so big between the mentality of the two religions (Atonism & Judaism) that he could not imagine that the same man had delivered both. As I said, he forgot well his Oedipus Complex transformative law. First Freud did not mentioned that the leader of the Exodus could have been Akhnaton himeself  (it is remarkable that in thebook he wrote during nearly 20years in his cabinet under his hudge poster of Ramses.2 (the powerful pharaoh who organized the detetion of Akhnaton! See Quades below) - he could not think of an Exile in Akhanton's case / though it is blattant that Akhnaton disappeared, only the very recent Egyptology admit that it was probably an exile).
Freud thought that a disciple of Atonism was responsible for the Exodus - and second, he declared that he had been assassinated, by the Hebrews. It was big thing for Freud - the Murder-of-the-Father ! He claimed that, consequently, a guilt was so intense that the Hebrew re-enthroned a new Moses - a stand-in, so that they would deny and hide their crime later. With this second guy and their guilt, they would have invented the frightening Yavhe - as you noticed - very different from the gentle Aton.

Yet, the repression of the transformative Oedipus, and the silence on the possible exiled Akhnaton, is indicative that Freud was still repressing a lot with his Moses.

Today, we have the strict Egyptological report by Osman, stating Moses-Akhnaton. Egyptological events following the end of Amarna would be very difficult to explain is Akhnaton had died in Egypt and/or if he was not exiled. As I also mentioned in my page about Osman, when he declares that Akhnaton has been murdered during his exile by the Sinai - he had no indications, but wanted just to fit with Freud on that point.


We must finally consider
that - either assassinated, or having escaped further - the Hebrews were first warrant of an Atonism which was adjusted to their circumstances (there is a revised versions of the Tables after the golden calf) - and moreover, in the following years they had to negociate in the Ramses-Hittite Quades  international re-organizations. It is clear that the land of Israel must be given to them at that moment - and most propably under the condition that the Egyptian Aton was absolutely erased (at the same time Egyptian and even Hittite were deleting 'forever' from their history the Amarnian experience as well as a specific relation that the father of the Hittite king had with Akhnaton's project) - this is enough of a experience for establishing the Judaic dogma that the Hebrew refer as the dispute of 'Kadesh' (in their Kadesh, the tribes debate what will be the tale of their history).


There are also arguments beyond Moses, evidently :

You may have noticed that I have also written an essay see Nefertiti hypothesis which explores and suggests a pre-Hellenique influence in the set up of Atonism. This would explain how and why Akhnaton's exile had to (and could) reach as far as the pre-Aegean area. It explains enough that a missing character of Atonism had been kept in Greece while protected by the ferocious figure of the Hebrew wagging the dog(1) (the very strategy, by the way, depicted in _Oedipus_at_Colonus_ when leaving his first exile stage -  sort of "Let them beleive that I am dead and that they have changed my God, so we can quietly continue the work in the woods)" ...

NOTE (1) If you allow for my poor English the help of this contemporary metaphore...




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